Politically Incorrect and "stolt"(proud in viking) of it
Ahh the elusive holiday tree, the natural weed which has replaced the Christmas as our primary adornment for Christmas. It is sorely disappointing that our society has fallen enough to change the tradition which it was founded upon. It seems that today the idea of tolerance is having adverse consequences. With the extreme minority dictating its values on the majority, the only real outcome is exasperation of the majority. I do not know one person who is offended by a pine tree covered with lights and accoutrements being called a "Christmas Tree". It is the same thing as calling a menorah a candle stick holder, or the Ka'bah a giant black rock. Something that is relatively sacred should not be renamed to fit the ideologies of persons who do not even believe in them. Of course the argument of separation of Church and State will be used. Unfortunately for those who follow that belief to the extreme; for the entire nation to be completely separate from Church, all leaders would have to be atheist, our entire judicial system would have to be changed, and the entire heritage of the United States would have to be rewritten. Since each have strong ties to religion is some aspect. Any leader who believes in God would in some way have their choices influenced by their belief and thus the separation of church and state could not ensue. Modern Law can trace its beginnings back to the ten commandments, thus separation of Church and State can not be accomplished. Finally the beginnings of our country were founded on religious freedom, not prohibition. The renaming and destruction of religious icon would certainly constitute religious prohibition. It is sad that people will readily allow the prohibition of religion over asinine ideological concerns. So finally I wish the readers a Merry Christmas, a Happy Hanukkah, and a happy whatever other celebrations people wish to celebrate!
posted by The Kwisatz Haderach @ 7:26 PM
5 Comments:
My poor misguided brother...
1) The Kaaba and the Menorah are intrinsic elements of their respective religions. The eccsmas tree is nothing more that a perversion of Christianity. You see the ancient pagan idea that the evergreen tree represents a celebration of the renewal of life was adopted into Christmas during the 16th and 17th century. So one could argue that purging the tree from the birth of Christ is a positive thing for Christianity. I’m sure Mel Gibson and the boys over at Opus Day would agree.
2) Breakdown of US religious makeup: Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (CIA - 2002 est.) I think 24% constitutes more than an 'extreme minority'. BTW, when was the last time you attended a church service?
3) The separation of church and state is all encompassing. To the extreme? Americans have the right to and from religion. That means secular: which does not include Christianity, Islam, Hindu Mysticism, Atheism, Agnostic Theism or anything else. Separation of Church and state means that no form of theology or spiritual ideology (or lack thereof) may be condoled or condemned by the State.
4) Any tree not on public grounds is off limits to the US Government. If convention has that it be called Christmas Tree, so be it. If the Gov tried to come into my home or my Church and tell me what to call the tree, you better believe there's going to be a big problem. The same applies in reverse.
Simply having a Holiday Tree is a violation of sep/chur/state – it makes reference to Christianity. So be grateful that it’s not been banned altogether. Any affiliation of Christmas with the US federal government is a violation of the Constitution.
Poor Poor misguided brother, it seems that you have tried to use logic for an illogical argument. First of all the first use of a christmas tree was in the 7th century in Germany, where the German monk Boniface tried to explain the holy trinity. The triangular shape of the tree stood as symbolism for the trinity and has been since known as "God's Tree". Saying there is no religious significance in the belief of God's tree would seem nieve at best. The Christmas tree thus is much older than you previously stated.
Secondly 78% of America would be considered Christian, while the other 2% are considered a brother religion of Christianity, and who revere Christ as one of the great prophets and actively revere him in their own celebrations. In Ramadan for example one day is devouted to understanding and exalting the teachings of Jesus. Thus from my experience with Muslim friends of mine, they have no problems with reverence to a prophet in their own religion. Not to mention that Jesus himself was Jewish. Of the 10% that do not belong to the more populous religions only 0.4% are deemed atheist as shown by the U.S. Census. That would mean that the other 9.6 % would be considered to believe in somthing. It comes to my understanding that people who believe in God would not be very offended by icons of reverence for him. Though historically this is untrue, from my own experience times have durastically changed and people in the United states today are relatively indifferent towards other peoples religions. Though this seems not to be the case, due to vocal minority extremists who the media like to portray as often as possible for ratings. In total between 90-95% of the population would (from my argument) accept the naming of a tree covered in lights and tinsel and other such things a Christmas Tree. Thus my original argument of only a vocal EXTREME minority of persons would find that calling a Christmas tree a Christmas tree would be offending.
While your argument of seperation of church and state is true, you have not taken into account that there is no seperation of state and tradition. Since the beginning of this nation we have had a Christmas tree on the lawn of the White house. Before that we had a Christmas tree on the lawns of the first two capitals in Philedelphia and New York (before the final capital of the United States was established in Washington D.C.). The idea behind seperation of Church and State was originally created to keep the Vatican out of the White House. Not to abolish the religious heritage of the United States. If that were true than we should make no mention of the Mayflower, Thanksgiving, The Declaration of Independence, Every anagural address of every goverment official, almost every holiday in the United States and thousands of other events which had religious background. We learn of these things in PUBLIC school and use GOVERNMENT funds to do so. So to say that there is a real seperation of Church and State would be rediculous. And to enfource it in that regard would be obtuse since no child would be able to study American history in every respect. If you believe that we should abolish our cultural tradition to appease a minority who use this argument out of context, then I think you should believe that I own the Brooklyn Bridge and am willing to sell it to you at a very low price.
Your fourth argument doesnt make much sense though... Since the tree is on public grounds. Thus the government does have a right to call it what ever it wants. Since the government is the embodiement of the people and the majority of the people believe that the tree is a Christmas tree, then by law the government would have to follow suit. Though this seldom happens.
Finally your argument which states that a Christmas tree would inply God and that would violate the U.S. Constitution. That is of course false because if you look at the text of the first Amendment it states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." There is in fact no LAW which you have referenced! Thus calling a Christmas Tree a Christmas Tree is not in violation of the Law and thus not in violation of the Constitution. Furthermore while God is not in the text of the Constitution, it is in the text of EVERY STATE CONSTITUTION. (look it up if you want to) And the Constitution clearly states in the tenth amendment that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Thus technically the Constitution does support religion since it supports states constitutions. Thus based on your argument the Constitution is in violation of itself. Thus your argument does not make sense since the Constitution cannot violate itself.
I thought your recent trip to Africa had espoused this neocon bullshit from your head. You sound like a nationalist; Bill O'Reilly has done his job on this one.
Honestly, I think Congress should rescind Christmas as a national holiday. Fuck tradition.
BTW: Your arguments are sound in of themselves (thanks to Fox news) but rely on Cartesian logic, in that they're self-supporting and make reference to nothing outside the false constructs you've created. Muslims for Jesus, eh? How about Allah ak'bar - only one Evan - a prophet yes, the son of God no. And I'm certain they support American Christians pushing for officially sanctioned and supported religious holidays - mandated by law (which eccsmas is my dear brother)... Why don't we take holidays off for Ramadan, Hanukah, Hola Mohalla, Dassehra, Nietzsche Day, Descartes Day, Camus Day, etc, etc... Remember that the tradionalists argument can be used to condole slavery, handing out infected blankets to Native Americans, etc etc – it is tradition, right??? Traditions are fine, but not when they single out a belief system and endorse it, and this little brother is what having a Christmas tree does.
Jesus Christ! This is'nt neocon bullshit! I do not believe in the shitty rhetoric of either side! It sounds more and more that you just want to end anything that you dont agree with. What I am trying to say is that we shouldnt destroy our heritage because it is the current fucking trend!! BTW I dont watch Fox you asshole, how dare you accuse me of being a sheep!!
I think we should allow more holidays for each religion. Of course it isnt logical for every holiday to be sanctioned by the government, such as Ramadan because it is a month long, same thing goes with Lent, and Hanukah. I am all for any other day to be considered a holiday. Also remember that the traditionalist argument can be used condole good things as well. Such as the Christmas in 1914 when both the german and allied sides started a truce (in the middle of the most horrendous war ever in the entirety of history) to have one day of peace to celebrate peace and love (which Christmas represents!!!). I cannot understand why someone would find somthing thats only goal is spread peace and love as bad. You, Erik, dont make any fucking sense! Using an argument that it was tradition that caused early BRITISH soldiers to hand out small pox infected blankets is absurd! No the real devestation was to break from tradition in 1930 Germany, when the Germans broke away from the idea and tradition of equality to murder 6 million jews to cleanse themselves of the past!!! With out tradition how the fuck will you remember the evils of the past!!!
Seems that you are all for out with the old in with the new!!! I bet that you would find it just dandy to agree with all the other extreme left, and finish off religion and tradition. Perhaps you should join others with your ideology and start another Russian revolution and kill another 30 million of your own people who dont want to give up what they hold sacred!!! That is the real evil!! With no tradition how are we supposed to remember and pass on the knowledge which was won by the blood of those who stood up for their beliefs! (Memorial Day, VE day, VP day, Bastille Day, Christmas Day, Ramadan, Hanukah, Independence Day) That is what tradition represents, the rememberance of the sacrafice which our forefathers made to make the future somewhat better! I for one will never disrespect them by breaking the tradition of honoring them. You go ahead...
okay, i will... yer a fiesty one these days. we can pick this up when i ge back.
btw - i wanna ramones t-shirt like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ramones-large-punk-concert-shirt-soft-retro-emo-alt_W0QQitemZ8358913353QQcategoryZ15687QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) for eccsmas, put it under that abomenable tree you've no doubt help set up...
XOXO-
Buba
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